While it would not be my first choice for the longer range shots that are sometimes encountered in areas like the Kalahari Desert or Serengeti Plain, the cartridgeÂ shines when taking shots in the thick bushy conditions often encountered in the Lowveld or Mopani Bush areas common in many parts of Africa. However, all of that makes perfect sense. Both 30-30 and 45-70 offer a practical purpose as well. The .45-70 was developed for the army to be used in … But, the Grizzly I shot was right at about 300 yards. Hope this helps! By the 1880s and ’90s, the .45-70 was perhaps the most popular big-game cartridge in the country. I have a shorter custom Lee Factory Crimp Die and will likely seat the bullets to an overall cartridge length of 2.52". I know, the .44-40 has probably killed more deer than anything except the .30-30. Though I appreciate your comments, I must respectfully disagree with your conclusions. Whereas a necked cartridge carries a lot more energy and range, but a straight-wall cartridge under most hunting situations will not carry beyond 300 yards. When sporting cartridges with high velocity and smokeless powder arrived in the 1890s, the first to rival the popularity of the .45-70 was the .30-30 Winchester. among our first successful self-contained metallic rifle cartridges. A 525 grain Beartooth Piledriver started off at around 1,600fps or a little higher will do the trick on anything, if your placement is good. The official military designation of the new cartridge was the .45-70-405. The round went through one shoulder and stopped imbedded in the opposite shoulder dropping the boar in his tracks. This allows the hunter to ethically take game at longer ranges and still consistently penetrate deep enough to reach the vitals of the animal for a quick and ethical kill. Would the 45-70 do for wild boar in Florida? Combined with modern bullet construction, these enhanced loads dramatically improve the performance of the .45-70 on virtually all game species when compared to the original black powder load. I personally use 405 grain had loads and never had any issues dropping Russian boar, Bears, Elk under 100 yards. Even when using the relatively simple solid lead bullets available at the time, the .45-70 was an extremely effective on game ranging from whitetail deer and black bear all the way up to the larger, tougher, and sometimes more dangerous species like moose, grizzly bear, and bison. Sort of an apples to oranges comparison depending way more on purpose and range, with larger game at closer range favoring the 45-70 and heavy, hard bullets. However, the .30-30 normally shoots bullets at a higher velocity, has less recoil, and less bullet drop at most ranges. On a deer sized critter, the shotgun slug and the 45/70 bullet are both much more than needed for a swift kill so as AGL says, dead is dead. No doubt the 45/70 is a great round with either store bought ammo or reloads, yet it has limitations. For anything further out I Bring the .300 win mag or .375 h&h. Traditions Firearms has begun production of the single-shot Outfitter G2 rifle that fits the needs of these states. The animal weighed 463-lbs (field dressed) and took the shot in the shoulder, breaking it, took out the heart and part of a lung. The 45-70 Standard vs the Trapdoor is night and day. The 45-70 is a diverse round that has many applications and can be reloaded with the same brass time and again. Gidday guys , i am a bit out there in oz as i am the only shooter in my club to own a Chiappa 1886 hex barrel replica in 45/70 , contacted Chiappa and they assured me the quality of the barrel was world class.I produce my own rounds and projectiles.I love this rifle , even though at times i wear the brunt of some loads in the form of a black/blue/green shoulder.i purchased woodley 400gn 458mag weldcore PP SN rec vel 1900-2500fps,can i use Winchester magnum loads , obviously not max loads as i dont think i need to go that far , some insite would be much appreciated cheers richard, My 45-70 sharps shoots about 2″ high at 100yds. The 1873 US Springfield rifle, also known as the “Trap Door,” had to be capable of producing a 4-inch group at 100 yards in order to be considered for military service. Thank You for this excellent article on the 45-70 cartridge. A loyal segment of hunters and shooters still use the cartridge, but many others are skeptical of the capabilities of the venerable .45-70, especially when compared to more modern cartridge options. This ammo is loaded with bullets that have a pointed, flexible, polymer tip. John. I have used the 45/70 325 gr load in my Buffalo Classic to shoot a South Texas Nilgai. The Springfield Trapdoor in 45.70 is one strong rifle. Marlin Firearms. As a remnant from a bygone age in American history, there are few other cartridges that have as long and storied of a history as the .45-70. among our first successful self-contained metallic rifle cartridges. .44 mag vs 45-70 I was reading some posts (on another forum) where members were discussing whether a .44 mag carbine (1894 Marlin) or 45-70 (GG) would be a better choice for defense against bears (and other predators) on a ranch in Montana. This content is brought to you by a D&DH advertising sponsor. With all that being said, I would be very cautious about using the .45-70 Government onÂ thick skinned dangerous game like buffalo and elephant though. While it certainly has its limitations, the .45-70 Govt is still an extremely effective cartridge when used under the proper conditions. 1 year ago. Hydrostatic effect is higher with higher velocity so the internal damage will be higher with the 45/70. The .30-30 Winchester is known for moderate power and moderate recoil in easy to carry lever-action carbines. The US Navy and Marine Corps also used the cartridge in a few different rifles as well. In our county in Texas we get 1 13 inch inside or greater and a spike or half spike. 405 grain hand loaded to 2100 FPS. New to the 45-70 world. Get it here: https://www.brownells.com/ammunition/rifle-ammo/core-lokt-ammo-45-70-government-405gr-sp-prod96842.aspx?avad=177422_d1c75e2b1&aid=143054&cm_mmc=affiliate-_-Itwine-_-Avantlink-_-app&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_source=Avantlink&utm_content=NA&utm_campaign=Itwine Jerry Burden. However, there’s a 405gr Remington load (links below) that’s advertised as safe to use in all .45-70 rifles in good condition. Hydrostatic effect is higher with higher velocity so the internal damage will be higher with the 45/70. With a 200 yard zero, that .30-30 load will hit 3â high at 100 yards and about 12â low at 300 yards. My two choices of guns are a 45-70 guide gun and TC Encore in .35 Whelen. This is something the ammunition companies have to keep in mind when loading up “run of the mill” .45-70 factory ammo. At the same time, there’s an even bigger difference between the newer .45-70 load and the .30-06 Springfield load. On large game, the .30-30 was adopted to some extent, but was never as reliable as the heavyweight .45-70 projectile. Though modern loadings using smokeless powder have certainly improved the performance of the cartridge, the ballistics of the .45-70 on paper simply can’t compete with many newer options like the .444 Marlin, the .450 Marlin, and the .458 Win Mag. This is my go to load for brush hunting bears and hogs. Unfortunately, those bullets have a low ballistic coefficient and poor downrange performance. Well, designers at Hornady attempted to solve that problem with their âLEVERevolutionâ, line of ammunition for cartridges like the .30-30 Winchester, .35 Remington, and .45-70 Govt that are popular in lever guns. A product of the blackpowder era, the original .45-70 Gov’t cartridge fired a 405-grain .458-inch bullet at velocities over 1,300 fps, and as westward expansion prompted conflicts between the U.S. government and Native American nations it was the .45-70 Trapdoor Springfield that became the weapon of choice for warring parties on both sides. Good tight action-no play. 11 BEST HUNTING EAR PROTECTION OPTIONS FOR SPORTSMEN IN 2020, Patience Is Rewarded With A Trophy Whitetail Buck, https://www.brownells.com/ammunition/rifle-ammo/core-lokt-ammo-45-70-government-405gr-sp-prod96842.aspx?avad=177422_d1c75e2b1&aid=143054&cm_mmc=affiliate-_-Itwine-_-Avantlink-_-app&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_source=Avantlink&utm_content=NA&utm_campaign=Itwine, https://www.luckygunner.com/45-70-govt-405-grain-soft-point-remington-core-lokt-20-rounds?utm_source=bghb&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=45-70_corelokt#rid=bghb, 6.5 Creedmoor vs 243 Winchester Review & Comparison, 6.5 Creedmoor vs 7mm-08 Remington Review & Comparison, 6.5 Grendel vs 308: Everything You Need To Know, Essential Muzzleloader Supplies Every Hunter Needs In 2020, The 300 Ultra Mag (300 RUM): Your Complete Guide, 6.8 SPC vs 6.5 Grendel: What You Need To Know, 6.5 PRC: Ultimate Guide To What You Need To Know, 5 Of The Best Traditional Muzzleloaders For Hunters In 2020, Best 22LR Ammo For Hunting, Plinking, Target Shooting & More. Using modern, smokeless powder, most of the ammunition manufacturers currently produce a wide variety of loads of varying power for the .45-70. of 18000. Broke its neck and fell immediately! Even though he managed to stand up again he just fell over with nothing left to fight with. It fires a 350 grain .458 caliber bullet at 2,250 feet per second. Joined: Feb 11, 2007 Messages: 3,788. With all that in mind, the .30-30 Winchester still remains a great choice for many hunters. Indeed, there are several .45-70 ammo options out there that provide vastly improved ballistics when compared to the original black powder loading. is arguably the best choice out of all of the straight wall cartridges. In case you were wondering, the name of the cartridge comes fromÂ the black powder naming convention in common use at the time that consisted of the caliber of the cartridge followed by the standard load of powder in grains (like the .50-110 Winchester for instance). Soon, hunters had access to quality lever action and single shot rifles and repeaters such as the Remington Rolling Block,Â the Remington-Keene,Â the Sharps 1874 âBuffalo Rifle,â the Winchester-Hotchkiss, Winchester Model 1885 âHigh Wall,â and the Winchester Model 1886. The .45-70 is best at 75 to 150 yards on most game, but it drops significantly at any range past that. More important for dangerous game, the traditional 405-grain .45-70 bullet can be handloaded or custom loaded as high as 1,950 fps in either .45-70 or .450 Marlin, yielding about 3,500 ft.-lbs. The .45-70 Government (especially with modern ammunition) has a reputation for hard hitting performance on both ends. I purchased an 1898 “Rod” Bayonet Springfield Trapdoor in the white a few years ago The bore is perfect. You’d need to aim about 64″ (just over 5 feet) above your target to be dead on at 500 yards and about 201″ high (16.75 feet) above your target to be dead on at 800 yards without adjusting your sights. I use “Cowboy” rounds mostly, but somehow got a box of modern smokeless ammo from Aguila. Almost anybody who has done much range work with shotgun slugs knows that they are plagued with fliers. I used a marlin 1895 with 325 grain hornady ftx. I wish I could use one of my .45-70's. The 1894 Marlin in .44 is at least a pound lighter than the 1895 gbl .45/70. Known for its bone crushing power and excellent terminal performance on virtually every species of North American big game at short to medium range, hunters all over the United States still utilize the .45-70 for deer hunting in thick conditions and it’s also quite effective on black bear, feral hogs, moose, and … Re: 44 mag or 45-70 for Iowa deer … So, there are lots of options for both cartridges if you like to hand load. The .45-70 is best at 75 to 150 yards on most game, but it drops significantly at any range past that. All three loads used a 100 yard zero.As you can see, there’s a pretty stark contrast between the trajectory of the older .45-70 Govt load and the newer Hornady .45-70 load. Are you just itching to take a rifle chambered in .45-70 on a hunt? Muzzle Energy 3735 Foot Pounds. While recoil is indeed substantial, itâs not necessarily excessive either. Unfortunately, the .45-70 Govt is difficult to shoot at longer ranges because the slow velocity and low ballistic coefficient of the bullet, even when using modern bullets such as Hornadyâs âLEVERevolution,â combine to produce a pretty steep trajectory. This is 200 fps faster than the same company’s load (with the same bullet) for the .45-70. The .45-70 is commonly thought of as a long-range round. When it comes to hunting with a large-bore, straight-wall cartridge, hunters want a dependable and accurate rifle. Nevertheless, in the early stages of such developments, small-caliber projectiles had many flaws. Since the 45-70 Government ammo is heavier and has a steeper trajectory vs the Win ammo, we find it harder to hit our targets more accurately because of its drawback, making it harder to place our shots. If I was going to only hunt bear I would do 45-70. For comparison to a popular deer hunting shotgun slug, the Remington High Velocity 3-inch rifled slug carries the following ballistics: Conversely, the .45-70 Gov’t has the following ballistics: When it comes to using a straight-wall cartridge, it is comparable in ballistics to a 12-gauge shotgun slug. For these reasons, the .45-70 is an ideal cartridge for hunting deer, black bear, feral hogs, moose, brown bear, and other big game in thick woods or heavy cover where short range shots (>100 yards) are common. — PAID PARTNER CONTENT. For the thin-skinned animals like deer, you should use the .45-70 Government, as the low velocity of this bullet will not ruin or blood-shot meat. Generally speaking, most straight wall cartridges do not carry the same downrange energy or pose the same long-distance threat that necked cartridges carry. Fortunately, there are still some good options out there that are plenty safe to use in those older rifles. Again, it can, of course, reach a target at long range, but that’s not the point of hunting. There’s no reason why you couldn’t go shoot a .45-70 just for fun (and LOTS of people do), but it’s just more expensive and a little harder on the shoulder. It is really a ballistic issue. The U.S. Army continued to use various models of this rifle and cartridge in limited numbers through the Spanish-American War and Philippine Insurrection in the late 1800s and early 1900s. The .45-70 Govt is very effective out to around 150 yards with minimal bullet drop, but itâs capable of great accuracy and longer range shooting as well. 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